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Please add All Land / No Land Mulligans and no-penalty mulligans #6773

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Davrial opened this issue Jan 15, 2025 · 6 comments
Open

Please add All Land / No Land Mulligans and no-penalty mulligans #6773

Davrial opened this issue Jan 15, 2025 · 6 comments
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Adventure For the Adventure Module

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@Davrial
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Davrial commented Jan 15, 2025

When the enemies in Adventure Mode already have more health than you, being forced to discard a hand because it's literally unplayable is an awful spot to be forced into. In addition, if one were to play a regular game, it'd still be nice to use.

Drawing a hand with no lands and being forced to choose to keep it and hope a land shows up on draw, or having to discard it and be down a card, that's a lose/lose situation.

@Hanmac Hanmac added the Adventure For the Adventure Module label Jan 15, 2025
@TheLastNarwhal
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No offense, but learning how to mulligan is part of the game. As is building a deck with the right ratio of lands to nonlands. If they were to add a "cheat" mulligan all that would do is reward poor deck building.

Though, having said that, I suppose it's not really my place to say how someone should enjoy this game.

@Davrial
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Davrial commented Jan 18, 2025

No offense, but learning how to mulligan is part of the game. As is building a deck with the right ratio of lands to nonlands. If they were to add a "cheat" mulligan all that would do is reward poor deck building.

"No offense" doesnt work if you go on to just say a message that boils down to "git gud".

Anyway:
1- No amount of deck building can account for just terrible unlucky draws. My deck is just over 1/3 land and i keep drawing opening hands with 0 lands because im just unlucky like that.
2- In Adventure you're having to find, earn, and win cards. You dont always have full control over what you get, you just have to do the best with what you have.
3- All-land/no-land mulligan is not a "cheat" mulligan, it's the first official mulligan, and it's one that's still honored at almost all tables outside of official tournaments.
4- As for no-penalty mulligans, it's pretty common in friendly matches to allow one free. And in Commander specifically, one of the most popular formats currently, it's often allowed even though it's not an official ruling, due to the nature of only having one of each non-basic-land card. And due to the nature of how you get cards in Adventure Mode, it's very similar to the same reasons why it's often allowed in Commander.

@Goddfrey
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"No offense" doesnt work if you go on to just say a message that boils down to "git gud".

What you are asking for essentially boils down to to implementing your house rules because playing by actual official rules is too hard for you. So yes, it's a skill issue and you shouldn't take offense when people point it out.

@Davrial
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Davrial commented Jan 18, 2025

What you are asking for essentially boils down to to implementing your house rules because playing by actual official rules is too hard for you. So yes, it's a skill issue and you shouldn't take offense when people point it out.

To call No-Land/All-Land mulligans a "house rule" when it's the first official mulligan rule and still honored basically everywhere that isnt an official tournament, not just at random secluded tables, is extremely dismissive and reductive.

Also, you're blatantly conflating skill with luck. As stated, my decks have plenty of lands, it just so happens that i have terrible luck drawing them quite often. I am not alone in this matter.

Additionally, Adventure isnt based around any official competitive format, clearly, so why should it be restricted to exclusively the most modern competitive mulligan rules?

@Jetz72
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Jetz72 commented Jan 19, 2025

Let's set aside discussion of skill, luck, or the merits of one rule set over another in catering to either. Any new mulligan features would be an option, and Forge accommodates many ways to enjoy the game.

That said, if it's just the true original mulligan rule you're asking for - (reveal you have all or no lands, draw a new hand of 7, but you may only do it once), that's already supported as one of the Mulligan options in the menu. I believe Adventure mode will use whatever mulligan rule is set there.

The one free mulligan you see in Commander is not a casual table rule, it's specified in the rules that that's how it works when there are than two players in a game:

103.5c In a multiplayer game and in any Brawl game, the first mulligan a player takes doesn’t count toward the number of cards that player will put on the bottom of their library or the number of mulligans that player may take. Subsequent mulligans are counted toward these numbers as normal.

@Davrial
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Davrial commented Jan 20, 2025

That said, if it's just the true original mulligan rule you're asking for - (reveal you have all or no lands, draw a new hand of 7, but you may only do it once), that's already supported as one of the Mulligan options in the menu. I believe Adventure mode will use whatever mulligan rule is set there.

Huh. How strange that there's options only available in one and not the other. I had looked all over Adventure Mode's settings and hadnt found it. I appreciate it being pointed out that it's able to be changed in the Classic Mode settings, but that's a baffling discrepancy. Would be useful to have that on the Adventure settings too.

Also, this being fully into the realm of casual table rules I will fully admit up front, it'd be nice if you could have Land+London mulligan as an option. That's what i've been used to, both in private games with friends and also casual games at my LFGs, since London was put in effect. No matter who I've played with it's just been the norm to honor both.
I fully understand that's into the realm of casual/house rules and I understand if you folks on the team don't wish to do that, but it'd be greatly useful and appreciated.
Especially in Adventure where most enemies are just flat out stronger than you, unlike in 1v1 games of regular magic.

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