BUG - "never" was removed, that should **!!!never!!!** be removed.

[Mlocik97]

Description

Never sell data changed was removed. Never isn't never?

Steps to reproduce

Look to TOS

Expected result

If once something is defined as "never" then never remove such text from TOS!

Actual result

Text was removed from TOS!

Environment

Any

[Pawel-Marcin-Chojnacki]

It's not a bug, it'a a feature!

[MasterLink86]

I completely agree. Never, and "Promise" were both terms that were removed. That is a huge erosion of trust between Mozilla and its users. I should also state that as a user of Mozilla (well now as of today, former), this TOU took place a few days ago, but not once through the browser, or via email from my Firefox account, was I ever notified about the change. To me that further caused a trust issue by retroactively removing that "never" without my knowledge or consent to decline and uninstall right then and there. I find that troubling.

I was a former Mozilla Application Suite user 26 years ago. I've been there with Mozilla for 2+ decades. I'm not even sure this can be reconciled at this point unfortunately because quite frankly, it feels devious in nature. The wording is vague intentionally, and what isn't vague is downright disturbing. I'm sorry but, never means never. And a "promise" is to be kept. You did not keep your promise, therefore I am removing my promise 26 years ago to forever be a Mozilla customer.

Maybe in due time when a realization about this mistake is made I might reconsider, but I don't think that will happen. The fact the TOU update happened without any notice being presented to me was deeply troubling.

[matthewbcool]

I found more clarity on why "never sell data" was removed in this post.

The reason we’ve stepped away from making blanket claims that “We never sell your data” is because, in some places, the LEGAL definition of “sale of data” is broad and evolving. As an example, the California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA) defines “sale” as the “selling, renting, releasing, disclosing, disseminating, making available, transferring, or otherwise communicating orally, in writing, or by electronic or other means, a consumer’s personal information by [a] business to another business or a third party” in exchange for “monetary” or “other valuable consideration.”

Similar privacy laws exist in other US states, including in Virginia and Colorado. And that’s a good thing — Mozilla has long been a supporter of data privacy laws that empower people — but the competing interpretations of do-not-sell requirements does leave many businesses uncertain about their exact obligations and whether or not they’re considered to be “selling data.”

In order to make Firefox commercially viable, there are a number of places where we collect and share some data with our partners, including our optional ads on New Tab and providing sponsored suggestions in the search bar. We set all of this out in our Privacy Notice. Whenever we share data with our partners, we put a lot of work into making sure that the data that we share is stripped of potentially identifying information, or shared only in the aggregate, or is put through our privacy preserving technologies (like OHTTP).
We’re continuing to make sure that Firefox provides you with sensible default settings that you can review during onboarding or adjust at any time.

.

[slightlyoffbeat]

We appreciate the conversation from the community about the TOU updates. We've listened to your concerns and have made changes based on feedback. You can read more about these updates on our blog:


https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/update-on-terms-of-use/

[drax-xard]

I am deeply sad. I have been using Firefox since before it existed (Netscape). I would never have imagined it would sink so low. And if the best you can do is this corporate-speak nonsense bullshit, then you have lost a life-long user and supporter. I reapeat LIFE-LONG. Shame on you.

[c915]

I found more clarity on why "never sell data" was removed in this post.

I didn't.
They try to weasel-word around the reason for removing "never sell data" because of some "LEGAL" (capitalized as if it's some sort of scary spooky thing) reason.
They literally state, unambiguously, in that same post that they sell your data to third parties, to make Firefox "financially viable."

In order to make Firefox commercially viable, there are a number of places where we collect and share some data with our partners

Never is never.

[MasterLink86]

While the wording is better, the fact is you are still selling data, and that is the problem. CCPA follows I think what most people would consider "selling our/your data", and the fact is, again that trust was eroded, and continues to be eroded.

Tell me please, why was the TOU announced a day after it was in effect? Please understand that this alone with zero notice through the browser or the Firefox account email was not only deceptive, but seems quite intentional. It's as if you didn't want us to really know about it.

Selling our data is just that, selling our data. You quote the CCPA as an example as to why you needed to remove it, yet most people agree with its definition.

I also feel this line to be slightly hysterical: "We’re continuing to make sure that Firefox provides you with sensible default settings that you can review during onboarding or at any time."

Here's my feelings about that one, since it was added to the update, your defaults downright are set TO track. In fact, do you know how many times I had to keep turning those checkboxes off, because you keep turning them on? This isn't even an isolated case, many users have spoken up about this problem. Many Mozilla data collecting features turned off, just turn back on without a users consent. I am sorry, but if you feel that is a "sensible default" while at the same time trying to make the claim you never did or will sell our data, and promised, I have just no reason to trust Mozilla at this time anymore.

It's too late anyway, you took days to even think of a response, meanwhile since it was retroactive I had to make a decision fast because of your choice to rug-pull the agreement as if this was a Star Wars movie (pray I don't alter the deal further), I already deleted my Firefox account, uninstalled all Mozilla products, Thunderbird included because honestly I have no idea if Thunderbird is next, and after the retroactive TOU pull announced a day after it took effect, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, well that ain't happening.

Signing out, goodbye Mozilla. 26 years of loyalty, and what did I get for it? A rug pull on the agreement and gaslighting. Great work. /s

(I want to make it clear, even if you are making data anonymous, it is our data, and the thing is, you sold it. So, game over man, game over.)

[IsaacMarovitz]

Never is never. It doesn't matter how you phrase it Mozilla.

[IsaacMarovitz]

The reason we’ve stepped away from making blanket claims that “We never sell your data” is because, in some places, the LEGAL definition of “sale of data” is broad and evolving.

This is a total cop-out. Don't sell user data; it's as simple as that. Even the definition the blog post provides as "overreaching" is more than fair.

In order to make Firefox commercially viable, there are a number of places where we collect and share some data with our partners, including our optional ads on New Tab and providing sponsored suggestions in the search bar.

All I can really say is tough shit? You made a promise; why must Firefox be "commercially viable"? Mozilla has other projects and sources of revenue, add other optional paid services, don't break your promise and make it worse for everyone because you made a short-sighted decision.

Whenever we share data with our partners, we put a lot of work into making sure that the data that we share is stripped of potentially identifying information, or shared only in the aggregate, or is put through our privacy preserving technologies (like OHTTP).

This is a bare minimum expectation. Truly the bar is in hell.

[tcelestino]

Firefox becomes Chrome. Bye!

[WilliDieEnte]

I trusted you :(

[BOT-TI]

"We never sell your data"

*deletes condition from TOS"

Bye Firefox

[PerikiyoXD]

Just wait until your use share plummits. I recommend anyone that's concerned about this, stop using stock Firefox and start using LibreWolf.

You shouldn't break promises.